外国网友对中国武侠小说的评价 化骨绵掌怎么翻译?(2)

2018-01-01 21:32 来源:龙腾网 作者:翻译:白玉京 浏览: 投稿

  kangkang Posted 21 February 2009 - 04:46 AM
  In my opion, there are 3 greatest wuxia(kongfu) novel wirters:
  #1 Jing Yong(金庸): He is the first well-known and accepted wuxia writer, he only wrote 14 wuxia novels, but everyone of them is classic! his style is tradtional chinese novel style.
  My recommendations: 射雕英雄传/神雕侠侣/天龙八部/笑傲江湖/鹿鼎记/倚天屠龙记
  #2 Gu Long(古龙): His style is totally diffrent from Jing Yong and other wuxia writers, there are a lot of suspense and deduction in his book.
  My recommendations:多情剑客无情剑(小李飞刀)/绝代双娇/楚留香传奇/陆小凤传奇/欢乐英雄
  #3 温瑞安: His style is like 古龙+金庸, all his book are in same 江湖(wuxia world), you can find same character in his diffrent books. his imagination is unbelieveable. his books are much more fancy than others.
  My recommendations: 四大名捕系列(series)/神州奇侠系列(series)/七大寇系列(series)
  窃以为,有三大家:
  #1 金庸:第一著名,最喜闻乐见的武侠作家,只写了14部武侠小说,但都是经典!其风格承袭中国小说传统。
  推荐:射雕英雄传/神雕侠侣/天龙八部/笑傲江湖/鹿鼎记/倚天屠龙记
  #2 古龙:风格迥异于金庸和其他武侠作家,悬念迭起。
  推荐:多情剑客无情剑(小李飞刀)/绝代双娇/楚留香传奇/陆小凤传奇/欢乐英雄
  #3 温瑞安:风格是古龙+金庸,他所有的书都在同一个江湖(武侠世界)里,他不同的书里有相同的人物。想象力匪夷所思。他的书比别人的更奇幻。
  推荐:四大名捕系列/神州奇侠系列/七大寇系列

  jawshoowa Posted 03 March 2009 - 11:50 PM
  From the perspective of a student of Chinese language, 古龙 offers the advantage of ease of reading. I would recommend starting with him just to get a feel for some of the specialized language of the genre. It is very straightforward, modern Chinese, despite the ancient setting.
  Be prepared, however, for his overly emphatic style. Lot,s of this sort of thing: "There was no one in the world who could beat his Super-Duper-Whirlpool-Lightening Sabre technique, no one, that is, except (insert heroe,s name)". It is pulp fiction all the way, chock full of violence, one liners, and cliched amateur philosophy ("There are only two types of men in this world, those that become ill at the thought of violence, and those for whom violence has become an addiction more powerful than any drug." -- I,m making this up, but that,s the sort of thing you run into a lot). All in all, it is fun if you simple enjoy it as campy fiction. He does provide some interesting plot twists, but I find that they are not so compelling for me as they seem to be for many Chinese fans, perhaps because I already guessed that it was coming, or because it was so out of left field that it was completely implausible. At the same time, he nails some very poetic phrases with sufficient frequency to make it seem worthwhile. The books definitely have atmosphere.

  Well, the point here is to recommend books, so I recommend 流星蝴蝶剑. I tried a couple of the other famous 古龙 novels before and since, but that is the only one I really got into.
  As for other Kung Fu novelists... I feel that 温瑞安 borrows heavily from 古龙 without the poetry and atmosphere. I admit I haven,t read him cover to cover, but that is just the problem, I can,t seem to get hooked.
  金庸 is still too intimidating for me, though my attempts have left the impression of a masterful storyteller.
  Currently I am really enjoying a book by 卧龙生 titled 飞燕惊龙, which is in a psuedo-classical style, though not nearly as dense as 金庸. I,m 100 pages in and the plot is quite gripping, and he develops the atmosphere well. The emotions of the characters seem real enough. My only concern is that I have heard he has a reputation for not finishing as well as he starts. I am a deathly slow reader, so perhaps I can report back in 6 months or so...
  从汉语学习者的角度来看,古龙的优势在于易读。我建议从他开始,获得一些特别文体的语感。古代故事,现代汉语,简洁痛快。
  但是要做好准备,他的风格过于鲜明。很多这样的段落:“天上地下,没人能当他惊鸿一击,除了(插入英雄大名)”。它以“低俗小说”的模式,充满暴力,废话,和陈词滥调(“世上有两种人,一种人视暴力为穿肠毒药,一种人拿暴力当救命良方“ ——我编的,但你肯定会遇到大量同类句型)。总而言之,如果你只是单纯的享受阅读快感,还是很有趣的。他制造了一些有趣的曲折,但我觉得不怎么吸引人,因为对我这样的汉语爱好者来说,情节太容易预见,或者过于出人意料,不真实。与此同时,语带意境,很有气氛。
  重点是推荐书,我推荐《流星蝴蝶剑》。我前前后后看过几本古龙,但只有这一本我真正钻进去了。
  至于其他武侠作家......我觉得,温瑞安师法古龙过头,却没有古龙的意境和氛围。我承认他的书我从未竟卷,但这正是问题所在,没法吸引我。
  金庸把我吓住了,看不懂,只有个高超的说书人的印象。
  目前,我在看卧龙生的《飞燕惊龙》,风格仿古典,没金庸那么浓重。读完了100页,情节扣人心弦,很有气氛。人物的情绪似乎不够真实。据说他开写之时并没有构思结局,我有点担心。我读书死慢,6个月后见…

  Shadowdh Posted 04 March 2009 - 12:56 AM
  Are these books easily accessible on line or does anyone have a doc or txt file for them?
  求txt
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  sukitc Posted 04 March 2009 - 09:05 AM
  Jawshoowa: Thanks for your input. Yes, after doing some research, everyone seems to agree that Gu Long is the best place to start, in terms of simplicity.
  I have therefore taken my first stab at a Gu Long novel 七星龍王 and I must admit that it is indeed not too difficult to read, and fairly enjoyable
  My plan is to complete a few more novels by Gu Long like 小李飛刀 then move on to Jin Yong. But, again, as you said, the transition is said to be quite daunting (for a non-native Chinese reader). So, Jin Yong could a project for 2010.

  Jawshoowa:感谢。经调查之后,看来大家都同意,就简单性来讲,先从古龙开始最好。
  而且我必须承认,我看了第一本古龙《七星龙王》,不难,相当欢乐
  我的计划是再多读几本古龙像《小李飞刀》然后转向金庸,但如你所说,过渡相当困难(对于非母语读者),因此金庸大约会是2010的计划。
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  jawshoowa Posted 04 March 2009 - 05:29 PM
  I,m with you man. 金庸 in 2010!
  You should be able to find most of the classics online somewhere, but the link I had seems to have expired. Good luck digging them up!
  兄台,同看同看,金庸2010!
  最经典网上有,但我的链接已过期。找找吧,祝捷!

  imron Posted 04 March 2009 - 06:40 PM
  See this post for links to 金庸 novels. However it,s worth pointing out there are slight differences between the online versions, and the most recent print versions that I,ve seen. 金庸 has updated his own works a couple of times, so the differences might be related to that, or they might be due to poor efforts at typing them in.
  http://www.chinese-forums.com/showthread.php?p=144777#post144777
  金庸小说的链接,请参阅这篇文章。然而要指出,在线版本与我见过的最近的印刷版本之间有细微差异。金庸已经几次更改自己的作品,差异可能是因为这,(网站)懒得重新录入了。
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  renzhe Posted 04 March 2009 - 08:26 PM
  If you,re planning to read this stuff in 2010, you should definitely buy a paper version of the books.
  Books are very cheap in China, even for non-bootleg stuff. My Jin Yong novel was about 10 Euro in Shanghai, and reading 1400 pages online is an exercise in masochism. It,s worth the 10 Euro.
  如果你计划在2010年开始,一定要听哥的购买印刷版本。
  即使非盗版,中国书价也非常便宜。我在上海买金庸小说才10个欧,并在网上阅读1400页纯属找虐。10欧太值了。
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  skylee Posted 04 March 2009 - 08:34 PM
  Or you can borrow them from a library. Don,t know about the mainland or other places but there are lots of Jin Yong novels in libraries (public libraries and school libraries) in HK.
  你还可以从图书馆借阅。不知道内地或其他地方,香港公共图书馆和学校图书馆有很多金庸小说。
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Javer Chen Posted 05 March 2009 - 10:02 AM
  almost all universities, libraries keep Jin Yong novels in mainland.
  内地几乎所有大学图书馆都有金庸

  OldBender Posted 10 March 2009 - 02:15 PM
  Well it kind of depends on your language skill.
  Jinyong,s novels, like the condor hero, often tell stories based on real history backgrounds, contain a lot of real histroy heroes(like Genghis Khan in condor hero) and stories, and Jinyong also likes to build a very complex Kongfu theory system in his novels, and he combines kong-fu with Chinese philosophy like Yi Chin and sometimes old Chinese religions like buddhism and taoism, so you may want to learn some knowledge of the fields above in order to get a better understanding of his novels.
  Gulong,s novels, on the other hand, tell less complex stories and the language is also easier--at least the grammar is easier,and the sentences are shorter than in Jin,s novels, sometimes the words are very meaningful in the context but at least you won,t have too much trouble reading them.
  So if your Chinese is great and you wish to learn more about Chinese culture and history as well as Chinese kong-fu, pick up a Jin Yong,s book, if you want to choose a reading material to improve your Chinese, you may want to start with one of Gu Long,s book, and yes, flying dagger would be a nice choice.
  PS, don,t worry, most pieces from 50-60,s were written very normally and correctly, like textbooks, so you possibly won,t have trouble understanding them. The stories written nowadays, especially those published through the internet, however, well, let,s just say we don,t recommend those to beginners(not even to Chinese children).
  取决于你的语言水平。
  金庸小说,如《射雕》,通常基于真实的历史背景,包括很多历史上真实的英雄(如《射雕》中的成吉思汗)和故事,金庸乐于在他的小说中构建一个非常复杂的武学体系,融武术于传统哲学,像《易经》、佛教和道教等。因此,为了得到更好地理解他的小说,需要了解一些上述领域的知识。
  另一方面,古龙的小说,故事不复杂,语言更容易——至少语法比较容易,句子较短,有时上下文中对话意味深长,但不会有太多阅读障碍。
  因此,如果你汉语很好,想了解更多中国文化和历史以及中国武术,看金庸;如果想选择材料提高汉语水平,读古龙,《小李飞刀》是一个不错的选择。
  PS,不用担心,50-60年代的用语很正常、正确,像教科书,理解无困难。而时下的,尤其是那些网文,只能说不推荐给初学者(包括中国儿童)。

  Javer Chen Posted 12 March 2009 - 10:17 AM
  QUOTE : let,s just say we don,t recommend those to beginners(not even to Chinese children).
  只能说不推荐给初学者(包括中国儿童)。
  I can,t agree on this point. I think it,s a great idea to let Chinese children start to learn traditional chinese culture and traditional chinese literature with reading Jin Yong,s books .
  His words is a little traditional but also a little modern, not hard for Chinese to understand. there are also chinese cultures(Weiqi,tea culture,wine culture,food culture,Daoism,Confucianism and Buddhism and etc) and even history knowledges included in his books. Each story told by him is masterpiece, is wonderful. it can attract children,s concerntration and cause their interest too.
  I think it,s a good idea to teach chinese children chinese traditional culture start with Jin Yong,s books.:lol:
  不敢苟同。我认为让中国的孩子通过读金庸开始学习中国传统文化和中国传统文学是一个好主意。
  他的语言传统又现代,对中国人来说不难。他的书中包含中国文化(围棋,茶文化,酒文化,饮食文化,道教,儒教和佛教等),甚至包括历史知识。都是佳作,可以吸引儿童,引起他们的兴趣。
  我认为从金庸小说开始,教中国孩子中国传统文化是一个好主意。

  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  OldBender Posted 12 March 2009 - 10:23 AM
  Well, I,m sure you are right, but that,s not what I was saying. Read carefully WHAT KIND OF THINGS I don,t recommend children to read and you,ll understand my statement.
  你说的对,但牛头不对马嘴。请仔细看看我不建议孩子阅读什么。
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  mph Posted 12 March 2009 - 08:35 PM
  金庸小說是非常有趣。我推薦入手買中文和英文翻譯。
  The Book and the Sword (書劍恩仇錄) - published by Oxford University Press。
  有很多功夫術語是千難萬難翻譯的而且數不勝數的成語。
  香港本來繁體的版本是更好的。
  金庸小说非常有趣,我推荐入手汉英对照版。
  《书剑恩仇录》,牛津大学出版社
  有很多武学术语难以翻译,成语也数不胜数。
  香港繁体原版更好。

  carlo Posted 13 March 2009 - 10:32 AM
  I actually think Gu Long is fun. The analogy with pulp fiction may be not too far off. Or something like those early American science fiction stories from the ,40-50s with ten-foot spiders and princesses from the stars. Jin Yong is more literary, which sometimes may get a bit too heavy handed IMHO. A suggestion: as a student of Chinese don,t get the pirated version of Jin Yong,s books, or the typos will drive you mad.
  After Jin Yong I,ll probably try Water Margin/Outlaws of the March, the language is not much harder, and it,s a real classic.
  我觉得古龙实在是有趣。 “低俗小说”的比喻虽不中亦不远。有点像美国早期科幻故事,40-50年代那种10尺蜘蛛和外星公主之类的东西。金庸更文艺,恕我直言有时太过文艺。一个建议:汉语学习者不要买盗版金庸,错别字会把你逼疯。
  打算看完金庸看水浒,语言并不更难,却是真正的经典。
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Javer Chen Posted 23 March 2009 - 03:07 PM
  QUOTE : After Jin Yong I,ll probably try Water Margin/Outlaws of the March, the language is not much harder, and it,s a real classic.
  打算看完金庸看水浒,语言并不更难,却是真正的经典。
  Carlo, shake hands. I totally agree with you on this point. Water Margin is my favorite classic novel. Then, I think 白门柳 is also good.:)
  Carlo,握下小手。完全同意。水浒是我最喜欢的经典。我觉得《白门柳》也不错。)
  注:《白门柳》,刘斯奋著,获得茅盾文学奖。明末故事,复社、秦淮八艳、满清、大明、无耻的投降、毅然的抵抗,中国气派,人民立场,三观端正,荡气回肠。难得的佳作。推荐诸君一读。

  zozzen Posted 12 April 2009 - 02:43 AM
  QUOTE : let,s just say we don,t recommend those to beginners(not even to Chinese children).
  I can,t agree on this point. I think it,s a great idea to let Chinese children start to learn traditional chinese culture and traditional chinese literature with reading Jin Yong,s books .

  只能说不推荐给初学者(包括中国儿童)。
  不敢苟同。我认为让中国的孩子通过读金庸开始学习中国传统文化和中国传统文学是一个好主意。
  You raise an interesting question. What,s the level of proficiency when we compare adult advanced learners and children? In terms of learning hours, a 10-year-old boy should take more than most ,advanced learners, who may possibly spend only 3 years to become "advanced". In terms of learning curve, i never think that adults really has much more advantages than kids if we talk about language.
  Is a beginner able to read jin yong,s ? I,m not sure. The first time I read it was at my age 11---- in another word, I,d spent 11 years in learning chinese, but i couldn,t get all the words and concepts in the novel. The difference is that kids tend to accept more unknowns. I didn,t bother to make a huge task of checking up every word in the dictionary, while most adult learners feel uncomfortable with this.
  你提出了一个有趣的问题。当我们比较成人学习者和儿童的熟练程度,标准何在?在学习时间方面,多数“高阶的学习者”可能只花3年就能成为成为“高阶”,而一个10岁的男孩会花更多时间。在学习曲线方面,如果单说语言学习,我从来不认为,成年人真的比孩子更有优势。
  初学者能读金庸吗?我不知道。我第一次读它是11岁,换言之,我花了11年学习汉语,但我不能把握所有词和概念。不同的是,孩子们倾向于接受更多的未知。我没查字典去弄清楚每一个词,而大多数成人学习者不喜欢含糊过去。
  -----------------------------------------------------------------------
  calibre2001 Posted 02 May 2010 - 03:01 PM
  QUOTE : You raise an interesting question. What,s the level of proficiency when we compare adult advanced learners and children? In terms of learning hours, a 10-year-old boy should take more than most ,advanced learners, who may possibly spend only 3 years to become "advanced". In terms of learning curve, i never think that adults really has much more advantages than kids if we talk about language.
  Is a beginner able to read jin yong,s ? I,m not sure. The first time I read it was at my age 11---- in another word, I,d spent 11 years in learning chinese, but i couldn,t get all the words and concepts in the novel. The difference is that kids tend to accept more unknowns. I didn,t bother to make a huge task of checking up every word in the dictionary, while most adult learners feel uncomfortable with this.
  你提出了一个有趣的问题。当我们比较成人学习者和儿童的熟练程度,标准何在?在学习时间方面,多数“高阶的学习者”可能只花3年就能成为成为“高阶”,而一个10岁的男孩会花更多时间。在学习曲线方面,如果单说语言学习,我从来不认为,成年人真的比孩子更有优势。
  初学者能读金庸吗?我不知道。我第一次读它是11岁,换言之,我花了11年学习汉语,但我不能把握所有词和概念。不同的是,孩子们倾向于接受更多的未知。我没查字典去弄清楚每一个词,而大多数成人学习者不喜欢含糊过去。

  I,m actually reading 書劍恩仇錄 now. I agree that If I learnt chinese as a kid and read this book at age 11 I probably wouldn,t get everything in the book BUT I would still at least know what,s going on and skimp on the details. Eventhough I can read the book fairly ok without needing to resort to a dictionary much, I still have the following problems:
  -still can,t skim through ,like I can English
  -,reading, the characters/words and not sure what,s going on i.e. lost in the story
  -I can,t take more than say 10 pages in an hour
  The 11 year old kid wouldnt have these problems
  实际上,我在读《书剑恩仇录》。我同意,如果我是一个11岁的孩子,我大概不能把握书中的所有内容,但至少我能明白讲了个什么事,不求甚解。尽管我读书无需过分依赖字典,还是有以下问题:
  仍然无法像读英语那样一目十行
  - “读”字词,却把握不了意义
  一个小时读不了10页
  11岁的小孩不会有这些问题
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  eatfastnoodle Posted 04 May 2010 - 01:21 PM
  jinyong, gulong are usually considered the two best Wuxia novelists. After 1998, Huang yi joined them as wuxia novelists with the biggest influences, though he,s widely considered, even by his supporters, to be a bad writer when it comes to intricate literary expression of love and all other emotional endeavors highly prized in literature. That said, his influence everything after him is unprecedented and simply couldn,t be ignored (he,s really good with what would be called "big scenarios", namely, scenarios involving war and peace and all these political and military intricacy usually more associated with romance of three kingdoms than wuxia novels, beside Jinyong, he,s the only one I know who is comfortable handing BIG events, events that don,t only impact "this boy loves that girl" kind of, allow me to say, petty cliches."), anyway, after him, there were a bunch of really good writers who attempted to write good wuxia novels, (江山如此多娇 is good, it,s also much much more NC-17 than most of the idiotic officials in charge could understand, as a result, it doesn,t have an end. It is still good, though.). Most of them didn,t manage to finish what they started, though
  金庸,古龙通常被称为武侠小说双璧。 1998年后,黄易入围,尽管当涉及到爱情和高贵情感的复杂文学表达时,就连他的支持者,也认为他功力不够。这就是说,他的影响力空前,不容忽略(他擅长所谓的“大场景”,即涉及战争与和平的场景,这些复杂的政治和军事场景让人更容易联想到《三国》而非武侠。金庸之外,他是唯一一个我知道的能轻松驾驭宏大叙事的武侠作家,这可不是“男孩爱女孩”之类的——请允许我说——鸡毛蒜皮的的陈词滥调)。无论如何,在他之后,涌现出一批真正的好武侠作家(《江山如此多娇》挺好,但是17禁,2B官老爷们看不惯,因此烂尾了,但还是不错的。),大部分都是坑。。。

  Guoke Posted 08 June 2010 - 09:38 PM
  Gulong,s wuxia novels can be found here:
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